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Pete
westrider
16 May 2009 @ 05:58 pm
Rock Out with Your Spock Out  
How did I miss that that fits even better than the "Kirk out" one?

The more I think about Star Trek, the more one thing really bothers me, but it's a pretty significant Spoiler, so it's going behind a Cut:

The romance between Spock and Uhura. On most levels, this works wonderfully, but there's one aspect that really bugs me: Spock is initially her instructor and later, in her Chain of Command. This is a substantial violation of Academic and Military Ethics that I just can't see Spock making. It bothers me even more because it works so well in every other regard.
 
 
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( 8 comments — Post a new comment )
Fenmere, the Worm: redshirt[info]fenmere on May 17th, 2009 01:41 am (UTC)
Yeah, that kind of startled me, too. But, then the guy who plays Siler was playing Spock and I ended up thinking, "ah, well, it's just in his character." Which is no justification at all, of course.

Either it could be a part of Spock that we didn't see in the earlier series because he was older and wiser at that point, which I think is the best argument. The movie did establish with Spock's childhood that he wasn't the perfect Vulcan and had something of a strong human streak in his adolescence. He may have felt that he could get away with the affair because no one would suspect him and he would be a better actor then any human, and therefore to "please his human side" it was a fairly logical thing to do. And later, by the time the first series started he'd maybe learned from this mistake and never talked about it.

Or, it's a blip created by the alteration of the time line. Kirk was less stable, which drove Uhura away from him faster, and maybe she put more pressure on Spock, or something like that.

Neither explanation is perfect, but considering that part of the purpose of the movie was to breath a new life and put some more depth into the characters without completely breaking them, I think it's OK.
Pete: Goggles[info]westrider on May 17th, 2009 03:00 am (UTC)
It's not a lethal flaw, by any means, and there are a number of possible explanations for it, but it still doesn't sit right with me.

I feel that I should reinforce, though, that even with this taken into account, the movie was fucking awesome, and I'm totally looking forward to the sequel.
Amuddya: Beastly[info]padparadscha on May 17th, 2009 06:34 am (UTC)
I think it's a bit of both--a blip plus Spock's youthfulness. Although it's possible Starfleet's got a looser code of conduct, too--even if there's no precedent.
Paul Gadzikowski[info]scarfman on May 17th, 2009 03:05 am (UTC)

This is a substantial violation of Academic and Military Ethics

That depends on what the Starfleet rules are.

Pete: Goggles[info]westrider on May 17th, 2009 05:06 am (UTC)
Any reasonably modern hierarchical system I've ever heard of prohibits, or at least strongly discourages, relationships between two people when one is in a position of Authority over the other. I've seen nothing to indicate that StarFleet is any different.

If you've got counterexamples, I'm open to them, but otherwise, I stand by my position.
Paul Gadzikowski[info]scarfman on May 17th, 2009 02:56 pm (UTC)

Since now you've prompted me to actually think about it: The Starfleet policy seems to lean toward "strongly discourages" at most. As early as Balance of Terror we have Starfleet officers being married (by their captain), and she was his immediate superior (I think that was the last time till this month that we had so much as a brief shot of a starship gunnery room too). By TNG they're raising families on starships. I suspect it has to do with the psychology of deep space duty. I'm not sure it doesn't rate "actually encourages", at least by the 24th century.

Paul Gadzikowski[info]scarfman on May 17th, 2009 02:58 pm (UTC)

(I think that was the last time till this month that we had so much as a brief shot of a starship gunnery room too)

Well, no, there's the torpedo bay in Wrath of Khan.

Pete: Goggles[info]westrider on May 17th, 2009 11:22 pm (UTC)
OK, that Balance of Terror reference is a really solid counter-example. I feel better about this now.

The TNG bit actually doesn't have much relevance without more info, though, since there were other civilians on the ships, and many of those relationships could have been between officers who, even though one was superior to another, were not in the same chain of command (Say an Lt. in Medical and a Commander in Engineering, off the top of my head). That's just nit picking, though, the BoT counter-example really is solid.